Thinking about getting a new car - any ideas?

**wanderingmind** · 02-23-2007, 12:27 PM

I plan on purchasing a used car by the time summer rolls around. I am looking to spend ~$6-7,000 (or less.)

What I am looking for is a car that isn't going to be a money pit (something decently reliable.)
I would like it to be a manual.
It must be a 2-door.
It HAS to be "fast/quick" (ie; it must be able to do 0-60 in ~7 seconds or under.)

There are currently two cars I am looking at:

2nd generation Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi Eclipse

Specs:
4-cylinder turbocharged
210 HP
214 ft/lbs
curb weight 2789 lbs
0-60 6.4 seconds
1/4 mile 15.1

6th gen(1997-2003) Pontiac Grand Prix GTP

Specs
3.8L supercharged
240 HP
280 ft/lbs
curb weight 3396 lbs
0-60 ~6.6 seconds
1/4 mile 14.9

I am VERY into the DSM - I love the looks, it's small and nimble and offers 5-speed.

The GTP looks VERY sexy. It's got tons of power

The drawbacks are that there is no 5-speed :cry: and it seems like a boat.

Any other ideas?

**TSi+WRX** · 02-23-2007, 01:48 PM

I unfortunatley know nothing about the GTPs, other than that I do respect them 8) - so I will stick with helping you about the DSMs.

As a devoted DSM lover, I'd first have to bring up the fact that "DSMs have been making mechanics since 1989."

With that out of the way......

That's actually a pretty good budget you've got there.

You won't likely be able to get anything with a more "serious" list of upgrades, but the vehicle should be of better-than-"good" overall shape, of reasonable mileage, and should carry at least some minor cosmetic and even performance-oriented upgrades. Stick to the 2Ga generation, and you're more likely to meet your budget demands. You more than likely will not be able to get an AWD variant, though, for that price.

These cars do have an excellent database of hobbyist/enthusiast technical knowledge - pretty much all the kinks are worked-out, all the tricks known. Additionally, they have parts that can be tracked-down both easily and cheaply. And if you expanded your budget, you'd find that there's a plethora of high-end aftermarket components, too.

Mileage will vary, and you should not be unduly afraid of vehicles which have had a rebuild of either the engine or tranny, especially if they were done as part of either overhaul or pre-significant-upgrade "preventative" measures.

Look for vehicles with a well-built and well-thought-out list of upgrades (even if they're short ones) and owners with good mechanical knowledge and empathy. Although higher power levels can easily be achieved for $8K, especially when looking at - if you're willing - a 1G variant, know that the traditional sister DSMs (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) typically enjoy a "sweet spot" at around 300 to 350 horses to the wheels, and at that level are rather maintenance non-intensive daily drivers with good fun quotient.

Finally, aside from a general recommendation of sticking to factory force-fed models (instead of buying a N/A to forced-induction conversion), I would point you to DSMtuners.com for further, more detailed, information.

Also, I hate "quoting myself," but this is from another thread, and I think you'll find this as useful reference, too:

Originally Posted by TSi+WRX

Originally Posted by marker227

I was actually VERY interested in that car and talked to my local mechanic that we go to a lot and they said it was ****. Very unreliable they told me.

^ I wouldn't say so....at least not any more than any other 10+ year-old vehicle, and when framed in terms of upgraded/modified vehicles, I have a similar opinion as well.

The problem is that many of these vehicles have such extensive community databases of potential trouble-spots and their fixes that, to the uninitiated, they may think "OMG, this is a huge list of problems, these must not be very reliable vehicles!"

Additionally, one has to keep in-mind the market to which these vehicles not only currently appeal to, but appealed to when they were either "showroom new" or just a few years out of the showroom.

Current appeal is mostly with the younger, less affluent "tuner" crowd, and as such, not only is dollars-spent for quality replacement parts, service, or aftermarket parts a concer, but so is owner mechanical empathy, ability, and understanding. Thus, many of these cars have, literally, been "driven to the ground," again making for a bad appearance at, say, the local garage.

And even when they were new, they still typically appealed to either younger or more aggressive drivers - both of which are still not conducive to vehicle reliability measures.

Properly cared-for, DSMs in good condition are no worse everyday, day-in/day-out drivers than any other vehicle of similar vintage and scale of modification/upgrades. I've daily-driven DSMs since early 1992, and never has one given me any headaches, even my upgraded ones - and all I typically do is just normal maintenance in my garage or driveway.

The general perception that "DSMs aren't reliable" simply isn't true - they're as reliable as any other car of that general vintage (when matched for vehicle condition, mileage, and care), and, more importantly, your efforts and diligence make them out to be.

**wanderingmind** · 02-23-2007, 02:31 PM

Thanks!

I want to find a completely stock one. I don't want to buy someone elses "race car."

When I start modding it, I want to do it myself and get it done right.

**TSi+WRX** · 02-23-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by wanderingmind

Thanks!

I want to find a completely stock one. I don't want to buy someone elses "race car."

When I start modding it, I want to do it myself and get it done right.

^ Cool beans.

In that case, your budget is very reasonable, and you should get something that's very suitable as a build-up project.

The important thing would then be ownership history and maintenance, as well as looking into (but don't freak-out about) the "2G crank walk" issue, and making sure that your example either does not (or that you wouldn't mind rebuilding).

Again, best of luck!

**spyder83** · 02-23-2007, 03:27 PM

Hey man,

Just my .02 for ya since I own a GTP...they are very easy to mod and get big numbers from...doing just exhaust, intake, and a smaller pulley your looking at probably 20hp right there. The aftermarket for that motor is HUGE.

You can make these cars look sick as well by picking up a ram air hood and modifying the front end (headlights, grill, etc.) kind of like in the pic u posted.

Parts are cheap since its a north american car as well. Check out www.clubgp.com

The car itself will also be cheap...I bought mine in really good shape for under $5,000 canadian...and that was up there...I've seen some for even less. Keep in mind that the L67 (3.8L supercharged) motor is one of the best GM motors ever made (long lasting, reliable, all around solid). Moral of the story, getting a GTP for $4,000 leaves you with lots of money to turbo it (mad hp), or cam it, etc. giving you near 300+ horsepower at the wheel.

If you have any questions about that car whatsoever just shoot me a PM as I have seen tons of em and have been working on mine for quite a while,

Cheers,
Ryan

**SmaartAasSaabr** · 02-23-2007, 04:12 PM

The GTP is an excellent car for the money. My father is turning 180 k miles sometime around now and the only mechanical failures were the fuel pump resistor and a rubber thingy on the exhaust. It's a very reliable well made car. The plastic thingis on the dash are crap but don't let that influence your opinion on the car. Wish there was a 3-pedal version.

**wanderingmind** · 02-23-2007, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by spyder83

Hey man,

Just my .02 for ya since I own a GTP...they are very easy to mod and get big numbers from...doing just exhaust, intake, and a smaller pulley your looking at probably 20hp right there. The aftermarket for that motor is HUGE.

You can make these cars look sick as well by picking up a ram air hood and modifying the front end (headlights, grill, etc.) kind of like in the pic u posted.

Parts are cheap since its a north american car as well. Check out www.clubgp.com

The car itself will also be cheap...I bought mine in really good shape for under $5,000 canadian...and that was up there...I've seen some for even less. Keep in mind that the L67 (3.8L supercharged) motor is one of the best GM motors ever made (long lasting, reliable, all around solid). Moral of the story, getting a GTP for $4,000 leaves you with lots of money to turbo it (mad hp), or cam it, etc. giving you near 300+ horsepower at the wheel.

If you have any questions about that car whatsoever just shoot me a PM as I have seen tons of em and have been working on mine for quite a while,

Cheers,
Ryan

I have been looking at them and they are cheaper than I would have expected.

The biggest concern I have with the car itself is the reliability. I have heard TONS of horror stories with the base model Grand Prix/Am's. I haven't heard ANY stories at all about the GTP models.

**TSi+WRX** · 02-23-2007, 04:41 PM

^ I wouldn't worry too much.

Look on the flip side - there's plenty of DSM horror stories as well. Heck, even the DSM community recognizes the joke, which I've quoted above: "DSM. Proudly making mechanics since 1989!"

Want 2G horror stories? Hop on any DSM community, and search "crank walk." Scared yet?

The moral of the story is that any of these older performance vehicles will have a *huge* list of POTENTIAL problem-points well-noted and documented. This is unavoidable, simply as the database is large - with a huge number of owners and owners who drive them hard, added to the vehicle's age/mileage as well as increasing power demands, well, things are going to break, from one demand or another. And it is totally NOT unreasonable for such problems to occur.

However, with proper preventative maintenance, proper upgrading (in some cases, "preventative upgrading"), as well as first-off buying a vehicle which does not show excessive problems for its age/mileage, and which is not abused, you will be addressing well over 99% of the "knowns."

And even if something does happen, typically, with these popular vehicles, the community technical support is tremendous (allowing the DIY wrench to do just about anything, with virtually "step-by-step" instructions), and the parts relatively easily available and reasonably priced.

**SmaartAasSaabr** · 02-23-2007, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by wanderingmind

[
I have been looking at them and they are cheaper than I would have expected.

The biggest concern I have with the car itself is the reliability. I have heard TONS of horror stories with the base model Grand Prix/Am's. I haven't heard ANY stories at all about the GTP models.

No news is good news

don't turn the boost so high you blow up the gearbox :wink:

**Kremithefrog** · 02-23-2007, 04:48 PM

I wouldn't buy either of those cars.

But those cars are really different. You need to think about what you REALLY want.

2 door, quick, cheap; Fox body would be what I'd get.

Or maybe a turbo rx7, but that's only if you also get a cheap beater for when you're working on it. Which for your budget, you could easily do.