Downsizing

[StealthR1]

Ohhh and just to help prove my point.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/27/markets/oil.reut/

"Oil prices jumped one percent Monday to move above $60 a barrel, a record, as robust U.S. demand, apparently unimpeded by high fuel costs, strained global production and refining capacity."

SUV's DEMAND twice as much fuel. Here in Phoenix looking around it appears about 40% of the vehicles on the road are SUV's and 10-20% trucks. Cars feel like a minority here. The amount of fuel used by these larger vehicles is over twice what the cars in the area are using. We are not talking little RAV 4's here. We are talking about Yukons and Expeditions and Explorers. Those that get around 12-14 mpg (or less). Compare that to a car that on average gets 24-30 mpg.

So yes, I once again thank the SUV drivers for the high fuel costs. They may not be the only reason but they sure don't help things out.

That's a stretch at best.

A person that rides his/her bicycle to work may thank car drivers for wasting fuel driving their cars, particularly those that aren't filling all seats in a carpool. It's all a matter of perspective I suppose. "We" are never part of the problem, but we seem to have an innate ability to find blame.

A person driving their Nissan pu 15000+ miles a year getting high 20's mpg (that's what mine used to get, newer might get a little better) is using much more fuel than a guy like me that drives 10000 miles a year on average in my 4dr 4wd 2500 Dodge Ram. It's been my experience that those with larger, less fuel efficient vehicles, don't drive them as much. That's only my opinion as I don't have any data to back it up.

Fuel economy is a consideration when I purchase a vehicle. I am concerned about the cost of fuel just as many are... so when choosing a vehicle that meets my needs/wants I take that into serious consideration. That is why I drive a diesel in lieu of it's gasoline counterpart. My 7,200 lb truck gets low 20's, which is not stellar but pretty good considering vehicle size.

Have you considered how much fuel is burned with other forms of transportation? A quick example is the huge amount of Jet A an aircraft burns. Are the people that fly to vacations the cause of our fuel woes? I don't think it's quite as simplistic as that.

We just cannot argue that vehicle size is the cause of the current pricing structure. There are a multitude of other factors that must be considered in order to make a well informed argument. One of my pet peeves is arguments made with passion and not with thought.


You have made some valid points, but I believe the solution to the problem is a little more complex than simply getting rid of the evil SUV's.

It's not my intent to start a flame war. I respect your opinion, as I hope you do mine.

Take care and be safe.

[(in)Sanity]

I respect most all opinions. I'm not sure where you live, however here in Phoenix many people own nothing but large SUV's and or large trucks. They commute with them driving 20k+ miles a year in them. I think that is my gripe. Trucks are great when you need them, don't get me wrong. SUV's appear to be nice for certain familys with lots of kids or situations where they often have to haul lots of equipment and or people. I however don't see that out here. I see one person talking on their cell phones driving a totally empty well polished SUV or truck around all over the place. I've seen Dodge Ram 1500's that have never had a single thing hit the bed. You could eat off the thing. So I question why do people buy such vehicles if not just for status or because they want to feel "safe". We all know your not safe no matter what you drive. I've seen my share of all types of vehicles destroyed beyond recognition, SUV's, trucks, and cars. It's funny but van's are actually one of the safer vehicles on the road. They tend to handle side impacts a little better. The full frames on trucks are great unless you get hit be another truck or a car traveling at very high speeds. I know even a bike going 120+ can do a lot of damage to a car or truck.

So the question is why do people buy trucks and SUV's when they don't use them for what they were intended for. My hats off to the working man that needs that truck, and I criticize the single woman driving a Yokon to work every day out of fear. My wife drives our truck because she feels safe in it, and she has a perfect driving record. I drive the little VW because I'm use to riding bikes and have no fear of the people around me. Foolish perhaps but I'm saving gas and not putting all those around me at more risk by driving something larger then I need.

So here in Phoenix my assessment of where all the fuel is going is not at all off base, it's very very close to the facts. I guess other places don't suffer the same problem and that's a good thing. Just not the case out here.

[SmaartAasSaabr]

Ohhh and just to help prove my point.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/27/markets/oil.reut/

"Oil prices jumped one percent Monday to move above $60 a barrel, a record, as robust U.S. demand, apparently unimpeded by high fuel costs, strained global production and refining capacity."

SUV's DEMAND twice as much fuel. Here in Phoenix looking around it appears about 40% of the vehicles on the road are SUV's and 10-20% trucks. Cars feel like a minority here. The amount of fuel used by these larger vehicles is over twice what the cars in the area are using. We are not talking little RAV 4's here. We are talking about Yukons and Expeditions and Explorers. Those that get around 12-14 mpg (or less). Compare that to a car that on average gets 24-30 mpg.

So yes, I once again thank the SUV drivers for the high fuel costs. They may not be the only reason but they sure don't help things out.

eugh yeah. If all SUV were traded for a car you wouldn't suddenly save all this fuel.

Look at what is going on in China and the rest of the world...

Look at the fact that the US hasn't had a new refinery in 20 years and one has recently gone offline

The oil is there in the ground. But no oil company is interested spending a few billion on a new refinery when it will make the prices less.

[(in)Sanity]

eugh yeah. If all SUV were traded for a car you wouldn't suddenly save all this fuel.

Look at what is going on in China and the rest of the world...

Look at the fact that the US hasn't had a new refinery in 20 years and one has recently gone offline

The oil is there in the ground. But no oil company is interested spending a few billion on a new refinery when it will make the prices less.

Kind of like all those leaky faucets in the world huh. Too bad they add up to millions of gallons of water. If SUV's got 1 more mile to the gallon on average we would see a difference. Think bulk here. Yes, the refineries are a major problem, but why is that. The same refineries worked before. Now they can't produce enough...hmm. Gas prices will just keep going up..and up. I see even Hummer now makes a smaller version of their beast. Perhaps the tide will turn. I will keep wishing for it.

[SmaartAasSaabr]

Yeah but - there are many more cars on the road

and each car drives a lot further!

[(in)Sanity]

Yeah but - there are many more cars on the road

and each car drives a lot further!

Sure doesn't feel like it when I go out, I guess I'm being exposed to an exception rather then the rule. May explain why others don't see things the way I do. I'll have to find some of the highway cams.

Some traffic cams.

Traffic cams

Check out the Trucks/SUV to car ratio. Don't just do a single look and judge..watch it for a bit.

Edit:

Best view IMO



Note: This image will update on a reload. I think every few minutes.

[RacerX]

(in)Sanity,
I see where you're coming from as far as people in AZ driving trucks and SUV's that don't use them as intended. I for one use the heck out of my full sized 4x4. i use it to haul, go 4 wheeling (lightly, since i don't want it to get damaged. ) pulling a trailer, jet ski, and 4 wheel drive in the snow or at the beach. (San Diego roadtrips) I could never go back to a car, unless it was a second vehicle, since i use mine way too much.

I was just talking to someone the other day, and her ex would always buy a large 4x4 just because he wanted to say he had a 4 wheel drive vehicle, even though he NEVER used 4 wheel drive. Having lived here and in Cali, i noticed a lot more people buy trucks and SUV's out here, more as a type of staus symbol, then the actual need for a larger and/or 4 wheel drive vehicle. A lot of them seem to buy them to put some chrome 20's on them and a loud stereo with huge subs.
So it could be geographic, i found that it's easier to find 4x4's out here as opposed to say San Diego.

[(in)Sanity]

I was just talking to someone the other day, and her ex would always buy a large 4x4 just because he wanted to say he had a 4 wheel drive vehicle, even though he NEVER used 4 wheel drive.

I like to call this "penis compensating", but that just tends to piss certain people off. One has to wonder I came to Phoenix from Boston where not as many SUV's exist. It's pretty hard to double park them as opposed to a Civic.

[SmaartAasSaabr]

Downtown Montreal you hardly ever see an SUV unless it is a black Escalade or Range Rover, when you need to meet the drug dealers...

There are a lot of Honda CR-V(of course! It's a Honda!), Chevy Equinox, etc small "station wagon on steroids".

I don't think a vehicle like an Equinox or CR-V consumes a great deal more fuel than my definately-a-car 900 turbo. But I have a heavy foot, both figuratively and literally. So perhaps the comparison isn't exact.

[RacerX]

I like to call this "penis compensating", but that just tends to piss certain people off. One has to wonder I came to Phoenix from Boston where not as many SUV's exist. It's pretty hard to double park them as opposed to a Civic.

the way she tells it that sounds about right.

But back to topic, :wink: , I think they will decrease somewhat, not so much in interior space, but in compacting the engine and drivetrain as new technologies improve.