Cfl Meet #4

[TSi+WRX]

OK, y'all know what - I haven't been there, so my opinions on this really should be framed in that context....

But honestly, from what I've seen and read, Cliff has gone the extra distance to insure that his association with LI is both known, as well as impacts the CFL-group's testing as less as physically possible, and frankly, I'm glad to see that other "associated" members of the community (such as stegall) have chosen to follow Cliff's example.

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Nevertheless, I still think that no matter what, we should *all* review *every* group/person's testing results with a healthy amount of skepticism and with a critical eye.

There's always something that could have been missed - either unintentionally or (thankfully, much more infrequently) maliciously.

In being "third person," we simply must exercise this kind of discretion.

No, no-one should be reading this statement as being targeted against *any* group of hobbyist testers here. This is not my intent. In all honesty, I hold members of the GOL, the CFL-group, as well as the CT-group and the RR.net crew, all in the same high regard.

I am merely saying that unless you are "first person," you should ask questions (respectfully and without malice or assumptions!), and expect proper answers.

At the same time, if you *are* first person, you owe it to the rest of the community to address any concerns in as "professional" of a manner as possible, knowing that, in the end, we're all in pursuit of the same things for our fellow hobbyists.

[Mthman30]

From what I have read it seems like Cliff goes above and beyond to make sure anything he does or does not do, does not influence the results. He was a member of the group before becoming the L.I. rep and it also sounds like he is continuing to use his knowledge to help anyone, not just those with an L.I. Besides, the CFL results for the L.I., LPP, P.A.S.S.and others were comparable to those at the CT testing at which there was no rep.

Not even close. If we didn't have the L.A. (same gun as the PLII, 238pps) we would have had all JTG's on the PASS system so I disagree. As a matter of fact the PASS would have done JUST as well as the L.I. on that day if we used the same guns they did. A stalker, a PLIII, and LTI Ultralyte and or a Marksman.

Everyone would be buying PASS units faster than RacerX can ship them. The results werent even close to the same. The PASS unit that you tested was not setup correctly. Had it been, PASS would be the talk of the town. WE have JTG's on everything but the L.A.. CFL meet had massive PT's with those guns. We didn't.

Everyone is blowing those numbers way out of proportion. Ask Pmoth, I'm sure he will agree with me on that. No other gun can touch the PASS. We had JTG with three heads.

Previously I tested the Antilaser G8 2 head system on both my car and my brothers truck, and the Ultralyte and Marksman couldn't touch a two head system set up properly. The 238pps guns present a different challenge.

When you have your next meet, don't be surprised when you can't get mhardy2288 with any of your regular guns. He will JTG you every time (with the PASS) if you use an LTI Ultralyte, a PLIII, a Stalker, or a Marksman. I don't have any doubts about that. Like I said previously, you can consider those results null and void. Too bad huh......

Go ahead, doubt me, you will see completely different results this time.

[BlinderGuy]

If it would make everyone happy. I could use my own video camera to film the meet so everyone can see what goes on behind the Laser gun. Its sad that we have to do that but will if it makes everyone happy. I will tell you when I went to my first meet I was skeptical of Cliff because of all the things I had read about him "sabatoging" the tests. But after the test he nevered tried to push his LI on me in any way. He did however offer to help me tune my PASS however possible to get better performance. I can see how people could think that a Rep could have an agenda to make his product look good by making others look bad but what would Cliff gain. He has a great product that other mbrs who have never seen Cliff can verify so why try to draw more BAD attention to himself by sabotaging a test. So I say "Thank You Cliff" for all you have done to help me!!! I am sure this post will make others whom I have formed friendships with on this forum upset, but I'm sorry! It is such a shame that this forum has more Politics than the Government itself. If you don't trust the Tests that people put on just buy the jammer you want and test yourself. Most manufactures give a 30day return warranty if you are not satisfied. Also a big "Thank You" to Mthman30 for all his help!

[Rottman]

All I know is Don wouldn't sell a crap jammer......

[BlinderGuy]

And you are right! I really think that the first test results where probably due to poor install. It was my first time and was rushed.. I have better alignment now and my heads are level and straight. I think I can get better results now. But in the same instance I think I do like the LI because of the performance but mainly because of the voice anouncements to what gun is targeting you. The LI is out of my league as far as price goes so will be hard for me to own one.

[Rottman]

This is not about what jammer performs best man, we all know LI is king.

I have nothing against cliff personally......

In all honestly I don't think if Don had released the pass the LI boys would be delivering the service they are now.....

[ELVATO]

PM sent, mthman.

[BlinderGuy]

I feel left out Elvato. Why can't you send me a pm?

[ELVATO]

PM sent, LOL

[Tambourine-Man]

We should really take this to another thread so we don't crap up the CFL group one.

I don't have a jammer yet. I am a jammer noobie. I haven't been to Florida in years. I am not part of the CFL group. I would loved to have been part of the CT group and am disappointed that they are just concentrating on non-LI system.

I wouldn't even be getting a jammer except that I lucked into a bailout from the Mazda6Club GB deal.

I am in MA. So LA results are important to me as that's what the staties use. I didn't even pick up on the fact that an LA was not used by CFL. So that's why from my perspective the CT and CFL results were the same.

I just noticed that some jammers had trouble with other guns but that the LA was the one that gave a marginal installation of an LI that I'm getting the most trouble, so I was hoping to have mine tested by the CT folks if it came in time.

I think the rest of us noobies would appreciate it if other "old hands" could point out things we may have missed from these group testing sessions.

Yes, it's nice for potential buyers to see how new systems do, but it's not as if any of these groups are doing controlled mini-GOL testing sessions. Rather the thrust is and should be like on this forum - to test their own and to help others test and to get the best out of their equipment.

To me it seemed like Cliff was an "old hand" who willing to help everyone, including those with a P.A.S.S system and it was a shame for non-CFL members to drum him out of his own group of which he was a longtime member before he was a rep.