March after former BART officer gets 2 years in fatal shooting

**Jstglockem** · 11-05-2010, 08:12 PM

This is why training is so important. I think the Department that he worked for should take most of the blame.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/05/...ing/index.html

**SteadySpeedin** · 11-05-2010, 08:41 PM

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edit: See post below

**Stealth Stalker** · 11-05-2010, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jstglockem

This is why training is so important. I think the Department that he worked for should take most of the blame.

Yep. Anyone with LE history could immediately tell that watching the vid. Nobody was more surprised than the cop when it fired.

Personally, I'm surprised that Taser International isn't taking a big hit on this for product liability. It was stupid of them to design it so handgun-like to begin with. They should have known this would happen.

SS, don't be a tool. A "cold blooded killer" would have aimed at his head, rather than risk only wounding him by aiming at his back, knowing full well that several dozen people were watching. This wasn't a dark alley or deserted building where you could intentionally pull something like that. Use your head.

**chriskohtc** · 11-05-2010, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

Originally Posted by Jstglockem

This is why training is so important. I think the Department that he worked for should take most of the blame.

Yep. Anyone with LE history could immediately tell that watching the vid. Nobody was more surprised than the cop when it fired.

I agree with the ruling. You should take responsibility for your actions, and the decision to remove a weapon from its holster, "lethal or non-lethal", is a serious and important one.

After all, "Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy."

**SteadySpeedin** · 11-05-2010, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

SS, don't be a tool. A "cold blooded killer" would have aimed at his head, rather than risk only wounding him by aiming at his back, knowing full well that several dozen people were watching. This wasn't a dark alley or deserted building where you could intentionally pull something like that. Use your head.

You know, maybe my judgement is clouded. Earlier, I watched that video where a cop carelessly went through an intersection doing 90-100MPH without his lights on, crashing into another car, killing 2 teens. There was also an article I read about another officer who killed 2 teens, while going 126MPH and texting. He got off with probation...what a joke. I feel that cops think they are above the law and they can do whatever they want. A lot of times, they do do whatever they want and get away with it completely or with a very small amount of punishment.

After watching this video a few times, it is clear that he was surprised by the gun being real. That doesn't make him a cold blooded killer. However, he did shoot him with a real gun and kill him, so he still deserves some form of punishment. I think 2 years was a short sentence. I think 5 would have been a fair sentence, given the circumstances.

Any way you could provide a link/pic of his real gun vs the tazer you speak of?

**unrlmth** · 11-06-2010, 01:53 PM

He also didn't apologize to the family until after he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

http://sfbayview.com/2010/oscar-gran...m-in-the-back/

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._X26_TASER.jpg

**Stealth Stalker** · 11-06-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by unrlmth

He also didn't apologize to the family until after he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

You can bet his lawyer made sure of that! Any lawyer would advise you otherwise is incompetent! Hell, even your auto insurance company says to NEVER make any statements admitting liability.

Wouldn't have made a bit of difference if he had dropped to his knees and given them head on day 1. They have no intentions of forgiving him, so what's the point?

**unrlmth** · 11-06-2010, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

Originally Posted by unrlmth

He also didn't apologize to the family until after he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

You can bet his lawyer made sure of that! Any lawyer would advise you otherwise is incompetent! Hell, even your auto insurance company says to NEVER make any statements admitting liability.

Wouldn't have made a bit of difference if he had dropped to his knees and given them head on day 1. They have no intentions of forgiving him, so what's the point?

Well there was no doubt that he shot Grant with all of the witnesses and video evidence. Also I i think an immediate apology would have left less of a doubt as whether or not it was intentional or an accident. While the Grant family isn't going to forgive him, an apology and explanation would have helped improve the publics view of him.

**Stealth Stalker** · 11-06-2010, 05:02 PM

Agreed. It's a tough call though, because the prosecution can easily exploit any such admission. Whether it works out good or bad for you is a roll of the dice that most attorneys would rather you not take. The legal system is a big enough gamble without taking unnecessary risks.

There was testimony that he apologised to the victim himself as he waited for help, and was profoundly upset about what had happened at the time. That further solidifies the contention that it was not an intentional shooting.

**Motor On** · 11-07-2010, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Stealth Stalker

Originally Posted by Jstglockem

This is why training is so important. I think the Department that he worked for should take most of the blame.

Yep. Anyone with LE history could immediately tell that watching the vid. Nobody was more surprised than the cop when it fired.

Personally, I'm surprised that Taser International isn't taking a big hit on this for product liability. It was stupid of them to design it so handgun-like to begin with. They should have known this would happen.

SS, don't be a tool. A "cold blooded killer" would have aimed at his head, rather than risk only wounding him by aiming at his back, knowing full well that several dozen people were watching. This wasn't a dark alley or deserted building where you could intentionally pull something like that. Use your head.

The most telling thing for me was the fact that after announcing the planned taser use to his partner, he proceedes to draw then sweep the thumb safety, which his Sig Sauer does not have but Taser does; his brain thought it had the Taser in hand. Little heat but I think much cause has come from the fact that the Dept had few tasers so there's never garuntee of getting one and that leads to officers shifting what is where on the belt, all of that stuff needs to be consistent; study after study proves that under stress muscle memory overrides this is why we train officers and military units for months before they ever go into the field. And agreed that, though for the prong firing tasers I'm not sure how to effectively teach aim and fire without reducing the range but, nobody mistakes a firearm for OC gun shaped tasers only add to confusion.

He likely would not have faced anything other than a few weeks of administrative leave had it not been for political pressure within the County judicial system, political pressure coming from inaccurate TV reporting.

At least four other officers have died as a result of "payback" killings and rioting stemming from media coverage of the incident. Oscar Grant was in the situation he was in because of the fact well documented that he was being a combative drunk, one person's indulgence of excess has left 5 families with members missing now. Oakland is and has been out of control for a while now, there is a long road ahead before deep change sets in, this is just one small case that puts the daily murders there onto the front page.