REDLINE, V1, X50, STi Testing VIDEO.

This past week I had the pleasure of meeting fellow forum member KaPro who is an exceptional person who enjoys this hobby as much as any of the other forum members I have previously met (CrazyVolvoRob and Victor.)


The topic at hand during this meeting: Testing a Plethora of detectors against a C/O K-band threat, to see who stacks up where... specifically the Escort Redline.


Thank KaPro for all the driving he did (there are A TON more videos where this came from: ie - forward facing, I omitted 2 RD's etc. etc.... all that will come later)... he made these videos possible. Also there is someone else we need to thank, but I am not at liberty to say their name (so don't bother asking!!!) regardless, a huge thanks to them, they know who they are. :cool:

This 'course' is essentially a speed-sign that I have often used in the past to really showcase detectors... especially the all important and tricky off-axis detection. The course also has a null in it (right in sharp curve)... making it extremely difficult for detectors to get those extra 25,50,100,250+ feet of detection. It is a K-band speed sign that is certainly within the K-band specs (in-tune).


Tested were:
-Escort Redline (essentially brand-new)... obviously. (Can't disclose other info).
-Beltronics STi (I will leave these details to KaPro, as its his unit).
-Escort 8500 X50 S7... loves its K-band. (Mine)
-Valentine Research: Valentine One 3.826... an animal for sure (Mine)
Also: (Not in this video):
-Bel E795 (Mine)
-Escort 8500 (Non-X50)... Amazing ramp-up. (KaPro)

Notes:
-We could not control traffic, so that is a variable that one could take into consideration... except our detections were generally consistent. (There was a set of circumstances -a truck parked infront of the sign to start- that made it so we had to re-run about 4 or so of the detectors to keep it apples-to-apples... because it left after the fourth unit... what a PITA).

-All the Belscorts were in Highway mode as I remember and see on the video... v1 IN A-mode

-The V1 did have Ka-guard off (I forgot to change it..its my highway only unit) but this is a K-BAND speed sign... NOT Ka. (If you do not like this: Do not leave a reply... do your own testing)... we are being honest about it. It should not really impact this K-band alert to my knowledge.

-The Belscorts often displayed different frequencies (I believe during one pass: Not on this particular video... KaPro's 8500 changed frequency mid-alert).

-There will be forward facing videos AND E795/8500 (NON-x50) videos too when I get time. We have well over an hour worth of footage (each pass was generally only 1:45-2:10 IN length before edits so... you know how many passes we took then. It is just a PITA for me to edit.

-Only one detector was ever on at a time. (During all testing).


-On the last clip the little 'Blip' the V1 alerted to that is the speed sign for the OTHER direction: The V1 even alerted 1-time with its rear-antenna going AWAY from it as well... it was the only one to do so (going away)... out of 3 or 4runs with it, but again it only did it once. The V1, Redline, X50, STi all alerted to it well going towards the speed-sign... before turning around.




Hope you guys enjoy and draw your own conclusions...

My conclusions are as follows: (I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR KaPro.. these are mine only):

-The Redline is a SOLID C/O performer... at least against K-band.
-It is NOT off the V1 charts in sensitivity for K-band, nor the STi or X50 S7. (Be sure to pay special attention to the "Red-paint-line" in the videos on the road which denotes an under-ground pipe, but provides an EXCELLENT Point Of Reference to where the RD's alerted. This is especially true for off-axis or tricky hiding-spots.
-If you have a High-End dash-mount RD's (specifically the STi/V1)... keep it as the Redline won't do much of anything for you based on these results and others so far... especially for K-band.
-Forward Facing (Coming up on the radar facing away results were a bit different).

Here you go... enjoy!:


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gs0WAnsCaY[/ame]


Watch @youtube in HQ as always. (Sadly I filmed in Standard not High quality... just realized that..., but it still looks ok under youtubes HQ).

T- 15 minutes! Uh!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AirMoore

This past week I had the pleasure of meeting fellow forum member KaPro who is an exceptional person who enjoys this hobby as much as any of the other forum members I have previously met (CrazyVolvoRob and Victor.)


The topic at hand during this meeting: Testing a Plethora of detectors against a C/O K-band threat, to see who stacks up where... specifically the Escort Redline.


Thank KaPro for all the driving he did (there are A TON more videos where this came from: ie - forward facing, I omitted 2 RD's etc. etc.... all that will come later)... he made these videos possible. Also there is someone else we need to thank, but I am not at liberty to say their name (so don't bother asking!!!) regardless, a huge thanks to them, they know who they are. :cool:

This 'course' is essentially a speed-sign that I have often used in the past to really showcase detectors... especially the all important and tricky off-axis detection. The course also has a null in it (right in sharp curve)... making it extremely difficult for detectors to get those extra 25,50,100,250+ feet of detection. It is a K-band speed sign that is certainly within the K-band specs (in-tune).


Tested were:
-Escort Redline (essentially brand-new)... obviously. (Can't disclose other info).
-Beltronics STi (I will leave these details to KaPro, as its his unit).
-Escort 8500 X50 S7... loves its K-band. (Mine)
-Valentine Research: Valentine One 3.826... an animal for sure (Mine)
Also: (Not in this video):
-Bel E795 (Mine)
-Escort 8500 (Non-X50)... Amazing ramp-up. (KaPro)

Notes:
-We could not control traffic, so that is a variable that one could take into consideration... except our detections were generally consistent. (There was a set of circumstances -a truck parked infront of the sign to start- that made it so we had to re-run about 4 or so of the detectors to keep it apples-to-apples... because it left after the fourth unit... what a PITA).

-All the Belscorts were in Highway mode as I remember and see on the video... v1 IN A-mode

-The V1 did have Ka-guard off (I forgot to change it..its my highway only unit) but this is a K-BAND speed sign... NOT Ka. (If you do not like this: Do not leave a reply... do your own testing)... we are being honest about it. It should not really impact this K-band alert to my knowledge.

-The Belscorts often displayed different frequencies (I believe during one pass: Not on this particular video... KaPro's 8500 changed frequency mid-alert).

-There will be forward facing videos AND E795/8500 (NON-x50) videos too when I get time. We have well over an hour worth of footage (each pass was generally only 1:45-2:10 IN length before edits so... you know how many passes we took then. It is just a PITA for me to edit.

-Only one detector was ever on at a time. (During all testing).


-On the last clip the little 'Blip' the V1 alerted to that is the speed sign for the OTHER direction: The V1 even alerted 1-time with its rear-antenna going AWAY from it as well... it was the only one to do so (going away)... out of 3 or 4runs with it, but again it only did it once. The V1, Redline, X50, STi all alerted to it well going towards the speed-sign... before turning around.




Hope you guys enjoy and draw your own conclusions...

My conclusions are as follows: (I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR KaPro.. these are mine only):

-The Redline is a SOLID C/O performer... at least against K-band.
-It is NOT off the V1 charts in sensitivity for K-band, nor the STi or X50 S7. (Be sure to pay special attention to the "Red-paint-line" in the videos on the road which denotes an under-ground pipe, but provides an EXCELLENT Point Of Reference to where the RD's alerted. This is especially true for off-axis or tricky hiding-spots.
-If you have a High-End dash-mount RD's (specifically the STi/V1)... keep it as the Redline won't do much of anything for you based on these results and others so far... especially for K-band.
-Forward Facing (Coming up on the radar facing away results were a bit different).

Here you go... enjoy!:


Edit: Video is still processing... T-15Minutes

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Thank you for your time

I know... I just wanted to get this up before someone spoiled the show...


You can watch the video now under my youtube name if you can't wait 15minutes. ;)


The quality stinks and it has no annotations well being processed though... eventually HQ with annotations will be added in Id guess 15minutes or so.

what is your youtube page?

EDIT....

looks like a lot of hype to me based on these results. According to some, it is supposed to destroy the V1 on K band, hmmmmmmmmm

Yes, if I could edit my own video (too many views right now) I would add annotations that show the V1/X50 S7 beat it (via the tiny red-pianted-line by the fire-hydrant).


Watch on the bottom right hand side of the screen in HQ, there is a little spray-painted line on the road... right before/after the detectors alert. The V1 clearly Alerts before it (twice), the X50 does somewhat, the STi right on it... and the Redline after it... both times.

I sure am happy that you guys have the time and equipment to make videos for this forum. I know it takes alot of man power to pull off such an event. I hope you will be able to keep them videos comming. THANK YOU VERY MUCH! P.S. I guess we will have to blame GOL for all of this.

Awesome work.

I think Escort is going to be mocked forever over the official rep claiming the Redline was "well off the V1 charts."

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Originally Posted by Obsidian

Awesome work.

I think Escort is going to be mocked forever over the official rep claiming the Redline was "well off the V1 charts."

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well what is he going to say, "well it will be close but I do not think we can beat it." :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by languy99

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obsidian

Awesome work.

I think Escort is going to be mocked forever over the official rep claiming the Redline was "well off the V1 charts."

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well what is he going to say, "well it will be close but I do not think we can beat it." :rolleyes:

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They could have said "it's just a repackaged STi."

but technically it is not, there have been enough changes to the antenna that they had to get a new FCC ID, who knows if those changes helped and maybe in the lab it was more sensitive but as you can see it did not transfer out to the real world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by milkman

I sure am happy that you guys have the time and equipment to make videos for this forum. I know it takes alot of man power to pull off such an event. I hope you will be able to keep them videos comming. THANK YOU VERY MUCH! P.S. I guess we will have to blame GOL for all of this.

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Would agree with ya on this. Also very good video IMO showcasing the detectors range coming around the curve. Keep up the good work.

I can't find the landmark, but it looks like they all alert at (about) the same time.

-Or the alert distance is seperated only by processing time.

Not that there was much you could do about it, but it looks like the course compressed the alert distances too much to see the differences between the units.

I hope the FF stuff shows more differences.

Thanks for taking the time for this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Z1NONLY

I can't find the landmark, but it looks like they all alert at (about) the same time.

-Or the alert distance is seperated only by processing time.

Not that there was much you could do about it, but it looks like the course compressed the alert distances too much to see the differences between the units.

I hope the FF stuff shows more differences.

Thanks for taking the time for this.

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Its hard to see, you HAVE to watch it in HQ at youtube.com (to make it clearer and a larger screen) to see the line painted on the right-hand shoulder of the road.

It did compress the alerts, but if you can you can see the line you see that the V1 and x50 alert just before it, the STi on it, and the Redline after it. One could only assume that if they were less compressed the V1, X50 etc would just have alerted that much sooner (spaced out more)... or the exact same via processing time... either way it got tied/beat for off-axis.

I guess the point being: Its sensitivity off-axis is no better IMO (it seems) then any other high-end dash-mount... off-axis.

As far as I could tell they were all really really close. Do you think it really matters. I think what was most impressive with smooth V1 ramp up giving a real feel for the distance to the threat.

Nice test, glad I waited for some results before ordering a RedLine. So far all the initial tests show the Redline is a good detector, but nothing to get excited about. And not any better than the Sti or V1, which really surprises me I thought it would be like having a STi-R.

Thanks for taking the time to do a little testing and filming it.:)

To highlight the differences between the sensitivity of the units in the first video, here is an original 8500 (Non-X50), to show how much every inch of the course matters... you have to have high-end (off-axis) sensitivity & response to do well on this course.



(This is KaPro's 8500)... it gave more then enough warning to slow down... but it highlights how sensitivity combined with responsiveness are a must.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In2ruQ_f6jc]YouTube - 8500 (Non X50) on Redline, V1, STi, X50 course.[/ame]



My E795 did even worse... (These videos to come).


Glad everyone appreciates the efforts, really give a huge thanks to KaPro as well, his hours of driving made this possible.



PS: For those who comment/rate-up my youtube videos (these and my other videos in the "Detector & Countermeasure videos" section of the forum)... thnaks and glad you enjoy it, it is a PITA to run/edit the in-car filming (especially on trips that are hours upon hours). :thumb2:

^ Ouch. -1 for the 8500 S7 camp.

Thanks for the hard work guys.:thumb2: I am really glad that I have an 8500 X50 (S7). I have just about relegated the 9500ix completely to my wife and taken the X50 everywhere I go.

Don't run into much K band around here, mostly KA 34.7 and the ix eats this up for me, but some of the smaller towns still primarily use K band and the X50 is killer on this.:victory:

I went back and checked the times from the first runs in the first video and the times from the original 8500 in the last video and this is what I got. These times and differences assume that the driver of the vehicle was travelling the same speed while testing every radar detector.

It is interesting to check out the ramp-up and how long it takes different radar detectors to alert at full ramp-up. I am not doing this to rag on Bel or Escort because the argument can be made that the Belscorts will definitely make an alert seem more urgent which could be a good thing. I prefer the V1 ramp-up but some may prefer urgency in a detector. Please feel free to check my times or correct me if I made a mistake.

These are the different times in the videos:

8500: :20 first alert, :30 steady, speed sign 1:07
STi: :09 first alert, :22 steady, speed sign 1:05
X50: Not enough info because the video was edited
Redline: 1:49 first alert, 2:02 steady, speed sign 2:44
V1: first alert 2:51, 3:37 steady, speed sign 3:49?


8500: At full steady alert 10 seconds after the first alert, 47 seconds of total alert time
STi: At full steady alert 13 seconds after the first alert, 56 seconds of total alert time
X50: Not enough info because video was edited
Redline: At full steady alert 13 seconds after the first alert, 55 seconds of total alert time
V1: At full steady alert 46 seconds after the first alert, 58 seconds of total alert time

dang..looks like x50 better than redline..:eek:

Thanks for the time and effort you guys put into this and for re-inforcing my decision to cancel the "Flatline" and upgrade my V1 to 3.872 instead! :D

To be fair, everyone remember that this was one set of tests against one particular K band speed sign. The main idea of the testing, was to give a raw "comparison" of old and new technology. Also to rag on the Fatlip. j/k:D

I also need to give a huge Thank You to fellow rd.net members Airmoore and upstatedoc for making this little gig possible. No to go and get a few more comparisons before returning the Redline to it's rightful owner.:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaPro

I also need to give a huge Thank You to fellow rd.net members Airmoore and upstatedoc for making this little gig possible. No to go and get a few more comparisons before returning the Redline to it's rightful owner.:(

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...poor him.

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Originally Posted by <<JAZZY>>

It is interesting to check out the ramp-up and how long it takes different radar detectors to alert at full ramp-up. I am not doing this to rag on Bel or Escort because the argument can be made that the Belscorts will definitely make an alert seem more urgent which could be a good thing. I prefer the V1 ramp-up but some may prefer urgency in a detector.

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Hey, V1 even gives you a choice here as well..........you can program the V1 to give a more urgent ramp up. Everyone seems to like the standard ramp up so I've never read about anyone using this option.

Nice Test fellas.

So the RedLine appears to be very close to the V1 alerting to around the bend K-Band. I wonder how it compares to the V1 with respect to alerting to grocery door motion sensors..........ie. is it better, worse, or also about the same as the V1 in alerting to these. If it can compare to the V1 on real K-Band Radar while at the same time do a better job of ignoring motion sensors..........then I'll be impressed.

Most interesting, thanks for your time guys.

at the expense of QT performance ninec1?

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Originally Posted by happya$$

at the expense of QT performance ninec1?

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This was basically a C/O sensitivity/range test on K-Band. I think we could say the RedLine's performance in this department would be considered impressive IF it comes close to matching the V1 while at the same time doing a better job of screening out motion sensors.

But I see what your saying.............the advantage the RedLine MIGHT have in screening out motion sensors would also be a big contributing factor to why the RedLine has slower reaction times.

So everything leads back to that one fundamental question.

Do you want a less chatty detector at the expense of the possibility of missing a Quick Trigger?

Very good point Happya$$. Thanks for putting this in context to the overall big picture. :)

[quote=nine_c1;616010]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by <<JAZZY>>

It is interesting to check out the ramp-up and how long it takes different radar detectors to alert at full ramp-up. I am not doing this to rag on Bel or Escort because the argument can be made that the Belscorts will definitely make an alert seem more urgent which could be a good thing. I prefer the V1 ramp-up but some may prefer urgency in a detector.

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Hey, V1 even gives you a choice here as well..........you can program the V1 to give a more urgent ramp up. Everyone seems to like the standard ramp up so I've never read about anyone using this option.


I've never heard of this option on the V-1. How is it done???

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Originally Posted by PointerCone

I've never heard of this option on the V-1. How is it done???

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valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt3.asp

It's option number 5, you changed it down to more responsive.

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Originally Posted by kappaz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PointerCone

I've never heard of this option on the V-1. How is it done???

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valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt3.asp

It's option number 5, you changed it down to more responsive.

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Yes but it only works on ka-band.

AirMoore: In the future, if you notice that your detectors are alerting around the bend then the course isn't any good. A lot of the real world courses we have beta tested for GoL end up like this. As soon as you enter the turn the detectors start alerting.

If you are going to test with forward facing, keep the bend out of the scenario and you'll start seeing the men separate from the boys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thestaton

AirMoore: In the future, if you notice that your detectors are alerting around the bend then the course isn't any good. A lot of the real world courses we have beta tested for GoL end up like this. As soon as you enter the turn the detectors start alerting.

If you are going to test with forward facing, keep the bend out of the scenario and you'll start seeing the men separate from the boys.

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yes just like our famous no plan b test in 2007 lol

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Originally Posted by languy99

but technically it is not, there have been enough changes to the antenna that they had to get a new FCC ID, who knows if those changes helped and maybe in the lab it was more sensitive but as you can see it did not transfer out to the real world.

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There are no changes to the antenna. The M3 used in the Flatline is the exact same antenna as in the Sti, Sti-R and 9500ci. The only difference is in the software.

As for the FCC ID, the first 3 letters are assigned to Escort, the last digits/letters are the product identifier. Since this is a "new" product, it gets a new FCC ID.

Jerry are you sure it does not have super, duper, ultra hyper, diode based LNA's LMAO!

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Originally Posted by jerry540i

Quote:

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Originally Posted by languy99

but technically it is not, there have been enough changes to the antenna that they had to get a new FCC ID, who knows if those changes helped and maybe in the lab it was more sensitive but as you can see it did not transfer out to the real world.

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There are no changes to the antenna. The M3 used in the Flatline is the exact same antenna as in the Sti, Sti-R and 9500ci. The only difference is in the software.

As for the FCC ID, the first 3 letters are assigned to Escort, the last digits/letters are the product identifier. Since this is a "new" product, it gets a new FCC ID.

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actually the FCC does not give out new numbers unless the antenna has changed. Look at Whistler, the SE series are new but seeing as it is the same antenna as the older pro 78 but different firmware they didn't have to get a new number. And I have seen pictures inside of the new redline horn and the sti horn and they are different.