V-1 VS. STI TEST ON RADARTEST.COM

**TheTexan** · 01-13-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by V1 Dave

The competition to V1 also needs an audible bogy counter, another big savior.

hit the nail square on the head. Probably one of the main reasons I switched. Belscort would dominate with their expert meter if there was audible notification of a new threat with audible band id. I drove with my x50 recently as a break from the V1 and I missed that more than anything else about my V1...

As for the Craig issue, I find it funny that yall are calling it unprofessional that he is simply defending himself from everyones attacks. I think you would be pretty miffed if a buch of enthusiasts started calling you biased, and some of the other colorful things thrown around the board. The fact is, with the exception being Jim and Roy, CP probably knows more than most everyone else on this board, and it probably annoys him, just like it annoyed Mike V back during the "E" sh*tstorm, when people who dont know as much as him start labeling his organization, and trashing his reputation.
thats just my .02 Im not taking sides but I think he was completely justified in his PM and his posts.

**bauzer71487** · 01-13-2007, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by TheTexan

As for the Craig issue, I find it funny that yall are calling it unprofessional that he is simply defending himself from everyones attacks. I think you would be pretty miffed if a buch of enthusiasts started calling you biased, and some of the other colorful things thrown around the board. The fact is, with the exception being Jim and Roy, CP probably knows more than most everyone else on this board, and it probably annoys him, just like it annoyed Mike V back during the "E" sh*tstorm, when people who dont know as much as him start labeling his organization, and trashing his reputation.
thats just my .02 Im not taking sides but I think he was completely justified in his PM and his posts.

Although you might not be wrong, the "professionals" as we call them DO need to remember that there every move is being watched and everyone is ready to hate on them/him/you for every messup you do.

BTW Craig - I think that you should stop doing the "point system". I think all point system tests are stupid - because they involve way too much opinion.

IE - you think v1 is ugly and many will agree, but I like it - so chances are I won't take a damn thing you say serious the rest of that paragraph and likely from then on. If you just say the v1 detects 3 miles while sti detects 3.2 - its hard facts - it can't be argued. Just something to think about.

**carbonhed** · 01-13-2007, 12:57 PM

Welcome Craig, thanks for dropping by and explaining your position.

I own both the V1 and STi and prefer the STi pretty much for the same reasons you outline. The STi's not perfect, I'd prefer the audio alert and expert meter from the X50 but it's a lot closer to the perfect RD I have in my head than the V1

Let's hope the moderators can keep the more rabid zombies under lock and key. Maybe a general warning to keep it civil or you're toast?

**ghz1** · 01-13-2007, 03:18 PM

But don’t let me trouble you with the facts. I think you’ll be happier depending on GOL for your information. As the bemused CEO of one radar detector company remarked after perusing their testing procedures, “There’s a reason why children shouldn’t play with guns.”

I think I would rather depend on GOL than you mate thats for sure. So would you agree the every day user needs a 40 hour class on how to use his detector? Really the ego. One would think that CP was a real radar detector engineer and test driving cars was his P/T job. Maybe the bemused CEO (Gee i wounder who that is) should start paying off the GOL to get the right results that he likes to read. Mike V likes there work and just for the record he refers to you as "this guy"came to me trying...... Then Sir Mike put you out on your ass and we can all see why. CP you have no credit with the "Geeks" however you would get credit with the "normal people" that know nothing about detectors.
Thanks for coming to the forum and insulting the GOL Boys this shows us all what type of chap you are. Guys don't stand for that he's a liar and a cheat and I for one am telling him here and now!

"he had one ball the size of a basket ball and one really big ball"

PS Why be nice to him he's not just read what he wrote.

**icantdrive55** · 01-13-2007, 06:19 PM

You can criticize the arrows all you want but real world situations its nice to know where the alert is coming from.

I am used this example before regarding utilizing the arrows on the V-1:

It is raining outside. You going inside on the internet to check out the local radar from the local weather service site. You put it into motion to see where the rain is coming from. Same thing with the V-1 arrows. You see where the threat is coming from. Yes, on occasion, the arrows do go crazy in town...but believe me, over time you get accustomed to it to know if a cop using radar IS embedded within the thicket of other radar sources. I use it in "L" mode most of the time.

I too have mine mounted upper left of RVM...hard wired under the trim. The V-1 works incredibly fine up there without it being so obviously mounted on the windshield. Arrows work fine. Detection from front and rear works great. Even a few laser hits from over the years from cops at 200-300+ yards or so.

**shooter2jim** · 01-13-2007, 06:58 PM

"[quote="radartest"]Apparently math isn’t your strong point. Allow me to make this simple enough for you to comprehend."

Apparently my engineering degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on, huh? Gee, all those years wasted attending those darn math and calculus -intensive classes..... I said that you made the disclaimer that with "optional accessories" the V1 goes to $540. But, if you're going to add the cost of the accessories to your evaluation, then give a complete description of those accessories and their features, and don't say that you didn't have the space. Unlike print articles, web sites cost virtually nothing. V1's remote display is full-featured: direction finder, mute button, source counter, band and signal strength indicators- it looks just like the face of the V1, sans volume knob. The STi's- a mute button, a power-on l.e.d. and a flashing l.e.d. The V1 remote is definitely worth the $39, but you dont even mention that BEL offers NOTHING comparable, even as an option. BEL also doesn't offer a visor mount as standard, Valentine does. I look at it this way: Valentine offers their product ready-to-use, with all necessary equipment for various mounting and wiring options. BEL offers their detector with various non-essential optional equipment, which the buyer is required to buy. A big metal case and 2 remote mute buttons with l.e.d.'s are not essential to detecting radar. Without the extras, the STi might come in at a similar price to the V1.

"The typical V1 owner purchases the detector and as he begins to understand its idiosyncrasies and shortcomings, begins adding optional equipment to it, usually one item at a time. To equal the features and equipment that come standard on the BEL STi, he’ll have to order:"

The typical V1 owner, as you would have the reader see him. I think a V1 owner is smart enough to know what he's buying. Maybe you'd care to expound on the V1's "idiosyncrasies and shortcomings", but regardless, they'd be almost purely your opinions. There's nothing misleading on the V1 site about what is included with the detector. Plus, you never stated in your article: "To equal the features and equipment that come standard on the BEL STi, he’ll have to order (the V1 accessories)". If you had, then you'd have a valid argument against my point.

"So I’m intentionally misleading my readers?"

With your small and incomplete first paragraph disclaimer, you leave yourself an out. Otherwise, YES, by constantly calling the V1 a $540 detector, you are misleading the reader. For a little over $400 (s&h included) you have a fully-functioning V1 ready to do battle against the $450+ BEL.

"Much as I hate to disappoint you, a second, rearward-facing STi isn’t required to detect radar from behind. It can easily pick up any rear radar from a mile or more. When testing it for the story, it picked up rear Ka band radar at 6.2 miles, courtesy of an 18-wheeler running up ahead and serving as a useful reflector. You may have noticed that similar vehicles are relatively common on many roads today."

Apparently, your reading skills are lacking. I never said a rearward-facing STi was required for rear detection. What I said ((copy and paste is a wonderful thing)) was: "they'll need another $450 STi to stick in the rear window (with an extra long remote display cord) to approach the same protection that one $400 V1 gives." I said nothing about sensitivity. Of course, I was referring to V1's rear-facing antenna (which in theory, should offer better rear sensitivity than any other detector on the market today), coupled with the V1's exclusive directional arrows. So yes, in fact, you'd actually need two STi's to give you the same warning information as one V1. I just used the term "protection". If the STi is as good as you claim, 2 units would probably give better protection than one V1. Just don't forget to mention the price.

"As I’ve written many times, the V1’s rear antenna allows it to pick up rear radar from several miles away even without the presence of a reflective surface. Okay, now tell me, exactly what are you going to do with that information?"

Ok, I'll tell you what I will do, and what I have done many times before. If I pick up radar from behind, I put my right foot down a little and I keep a keen eye on the rearview. With any other detector, STi included, I would hit the brakes until the cruiser catches up to me and I'm stuck in speed limit Hell, or I can just chance it that a cruiser got on the road behind me.

Now, what do you do with your STi going off for miles because a cruiser is somewhere behind you and you approach a real instant-on speedtrap? I guess another radar source pops up on the display? That is, if the STi's display is set to the proper mode. With my V1 still tracking the cruiser behind me, I get a special alert tone accompanied by the forward arrow and an additional "bogey" in the source counter. No special settings or display modes. Full and complete information! My livelihood depends on me driving tens of thousands of miles each year. Believe me my friend, that is not a make-believe situation. I've been there, done that, and worn out the T-shirts!!!

"Geeks may find value in knowing they’ve got a trooper five miles behind them with radar but of what value is that?"

Geeks and "discriminating drivers" alike. See my real-world example above.

"And many officers do, knowing that the average driver, particularly those running far over the limit, tend to develop tunnel vision and concentrate solely on the road in front of them."

A perfect example of why the V1's arrows are invaluable.

"There’s an effective defense against a trooper coming up from behind, radar or not. It’s called the rear-view mirror. Those smart enough to check their six o’clock position will automatically slow down at the approach of any vehicle gaining on them. If you’re running 20 over the limit and a vehicle is closing the gap, only a idiot would ignore it. Since the radar’s Same Lane feature is useless if any vehicles are between you and the cruiser, in most cases simply lifting off the gas is all that’s required to counter the threat."

Another perfect example of why the V1's arrows are invaluable. Most people don't drive- nor should they have to- with their eyes checking their sixes all the time. Especially if traffic ahead is getting heavy.

"The Radar Locator has sold a lot of product for Mike Valentine. But even V1 fanatics admit that it’s a major nuisance much of the time, especially in town."

It is ESPECIALLY helpful in town!

"It can’t even be made to work with reliable accuracy unless the V1 is located squarely in the middle of the windshield with a clear view of the road ahead of and behind the car."

ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE! A visor-mounted V1 with a so-so view of the rear is all that is required for proper rear and side radar location. Degradation of radar and LIDAR sensitivity with this placement is debatable. One of my V1's is mounted slightly above the dash to the left of center windshield, and the detector's rear view is partially blocked by my body. The directional accuracy is nearly 100% I read your last test where again, you slammed V1 for being very inaccurate because of it's placement. My 13 years of driving with V1's have proven otherwise.

"Which announces to the world, including inquisitive troopers, that you’re packing a detector. Hence the popularity for trying to hide it from prying eyes with the optional accessories."

The V1's remote display far outshines anyone else's and is totally worth the price- if someone determines they need this option! With BEL and Escort, I'd rather pay a little less for the product than be forced to buy the optional display.

"But don’t let me trouble you with the facts. I think you’ll be happier depending on GOL for your information."

They've also proven the V1 is not necessarily the most sensitive detector in every situation- and I agree 100%. Lest you think I'm a total V1 Kool-Aid drinker.

"As the bemused CEO of one radar detector company remarked after perusing their testing procedures, “There’s a reason why children shouldn’t play with guns.”

Maybe that CEO ought to quit wasting time trying to be witty and figure out why V1 is usually kicking his product's butt.

"Oh, and the next time you communicate with those good folks, you might suggest that they attend at minimum a 40-hour IPTM radar operator class before embarking on their next "real world" test. Failing that, they might at least read the radar’s operating manual. Then when they hold a tuning fork in front of the antenna, it won’t be 90 degrees out of phase as I noticed it was in a recent photo they posted. And no knowledgeable engineer would dream of wrapping an RF device in microwave-attenuating foam for testing purposes."

I don't communicate with any "of those guys". I don't even post to this forum a great deal as you can see by my "newcomer" status. I don't care how or where the GOL guys do their testing as long as it's the tests and reporting of those tests is consistent for each detector.... and the failings of each detector (V1 included) are properly noted. In fact, their last test was more sceintific than any I've ever seen from you, because they included more than one sample of each of the top detectors, and GOL showed variances between them.

"One other reality check: Mike Valentine has never worked in military ECW in his life. And he was forced out of CMI by Jim Jaeger and the board of directors years before their landmark products were developed. His personal contribution was on the original Escort, circa 1978."

And the original Escort was a fantastic detector, wasn't it? Where is Jim Jaeger and the board now? After all these years, Mike Valentine is still making great detectors, VR doing business as they always have, and with some slight changes along the way, the V1 is still the same great product it always has been. Escort, BEL, et.al, have all gone through corporate restructures, and their products have taken numerous different shapes and sizes. Out of all the different manufacturers, one seems to be able to stay in business without changing his product's outside appearance, or making other products like cb's, scanners, or GPS units.

My rant is not so much about supporting the V1 as it is calling B.S. on your anti-Valentine crusades. I have had my share of problems with V1's and been P.O.-ed at V1's many times, but they've always taken care of my problems (one free repair out of warranty) quickly and politely. And I've even been behind other detectors on the interstate that have given earlier warnings than my V1. Was I envious, you bet. But until something comes along with enough sensitivity to consistently and significantly outdistance a current V1, I'm still going to rely on the 360 degree protection of the V1.

The great thing about the internet is that average guys like me can rebut your "expert" opinions about a product I am fond of, when I find your opinions to be, at times.... shall we say, somewhat vastly different than what other people with no hidden agendas are finding. If Craig Peterson's articles look like b.s. and smell like b.s., then I'm not going to take a bite to see if they are. I bought an 8500 to see if it was as good as you and others stated. It was returned a week later. Good unit, just not a V1 killer.

I hope you're not top-speed testing cars on public roads, and if you are, I sure hope your detector doesn't auto-mute. Not knocking the feature though.....

Sincerely,
Jim Myers

**icantdrive55** · 01-13-2007, 07:06 PM

EXCELLENT POST, SHOOTER! EXCELLENT!

**hoosier** · 01-13-2007, 08:32 PM

Tough room, eh? LOL! Great post, shooter2jim. Just a few comments from this 14-year V1 owner:

First, I think I'm a fairly typical V1 owner and I never felt the need to purchase all the extras and add-ons to address its "idiosyncracies and shortcomings." I did finally buy a remote display, but had it been the lame attempts offered by the other mfrs. I wouldn't have bothered. On the other hand, I never felt the need for a carrying case - er, did I hear someone make a reference to 'geeks'?

I don't consider myself a 'geek' for wanting to be aware of a radar cop five miles behind me. I know he's there and as my V1 tells me if/when he starts moving up closer I can adjust my speed and behavior accordingly long before he is any threat. As he approaches, if he is joined by a second radar LEO, or even more, V1 tells me that too. I guess if someone's chosen detector can't give them this kind of valuable information, then it's a case of sour grapes to belittle V1 users over it. One of my favorite 'finds' is when a radar cop passes me going the opposite direction, and a couple of minutes later - before I can even see him in my mirror - V1 starts picking him up coming from behind now. I know the LEO made a U-turn and is now coming up, even before I can see him. That's an easy one for V1. Virtually impossible to do more than guess, with anything else.

If I have to rely on a 'relatively common' 18-wheeler ahead of me to find radar behind me, well all I can say is that's a pretty lame substitute for genuine rear detection. With all those 'relatively common' 18-wheelers around, who needs a detector anyhow? Buy a gosh danged CB radio, maybe. Hey - make the talking detectors announce radars in a CB-trucker voice! "Good buddy, there's a smokie ahead!" What a FEATURE!

If there is such concern about having to buy $140 or so worth of extras (yawn) to address the V1's "idiosyncracies and shortcomings" (sic) where is the concern over paying several hundred bucks for the other brands, which after a few years become obsolete and cannot be upgraded - and may not even be worth the cost of repairs, if those are even available? These are very costly problems that V1 owners, and ONLY V1 owners, do not have, because among all brands, only Valentine takes real care of their users. No mention of that though...

Some might call me a 'zombie'. Well, I will admit that even the V1 isn't perfect, and it doesn't come out on top of all bands' detection 100% of the time. But it's overall performance over many years has been at the top of the heap, it has features I find much too valuable to do without, and Valentine takes darned good care of its customers. When my 13-year-old V1 finally needed a minor repair, I was quoted a very cheap price for the repair - and they would also make sure the whole unit was up to original specs - or else I could get $125 off the cost of a new unit by trading it in. Try getting that kind of a deal from anyone else. That's why V1'ers have such brand loyalty - because Valentine remains loyal to US. And that is worth a lot more than talking alerts, carrying cases, or other things for which we just don't feel the need.

**<<JAZZY>>** · 01-14-2007, 02:48 AM