My top 10 enforcement & countermeasure pet peeves

[swarga]

One final thought and then I'll move on:

Significant stretches of the Autobahn do not have speed limits. Yes, some vehicles travel at very high speeds, some in excess of 150 mph! But, the average speed for most vehicles is around 80 mph, about 10 mph faster than traffic in the U.S. on comparable highways. But, here's the clincher, the fatality rate on the German Autobahn is lower than the fatality rate on rural Interstates in the United States!

Clearly "Speed Kills," and "if you raise the speed limit they'll just drive faster" are nothing more than factoids; these platitudes get repeated so often that some people just assume they're true without ever giving it much thought.

[ssick92]

Speed helps kill, but doesnt do so all on its own. Otherwise all F1 and Nascar drivers would be dead by now because they drive damn fast

[jgunn]

Regardless of the posted speed limit, the vast majority of drivers will drive at the speed which they feel is safe and comfortable for the given road conditions.

Sure. But much of what they feel safe with is based upon the PSL. A great many drivers simply feel that -- no matter what the PSL is -- they are safe doing 10 to 15 mph over it. That is part of the reason why PSLs stay low, because they know that the flow of traffic is going to consistently exceed it by an average of 6 to 10 mph.

When I got my driver licence, the PSL was still commonly 70 to 75 mph on the highway, and people were still passing me. You cannot overestimate human nature. We'd be pushing 100 mph speed limits before a great many people felt like it was "fast enough" that they didn't need to exceed it anymore.

I don't agree with that, at least not here. The photo scameras may have something to do with it but in general: In 65 zones in the city on the freeway, traffic moves at 65-70, uniformly for the most part with few going way faster than traffic. In the 55 zones, it is a nightmare, people going way over the limit, by my calculations up into the 80s weaving, cutting people off and is generally a free for all. It's like the thinking is in the 55 zones, we are already exceeding the limit by a large amount, why not go hyperspeed. In the 65 zones people figure why go so much faster and risk a ticket when they are already driving at a decent pace.

[Gokhos]

Not sure if this belongs in the Lounge, but it's countermeasure related so I'll post it here and if someone wants to move it, I won't pout for too long.

I'm going to try and keep this to a top 10 list. Feel free to post your own.

My Top 10 Enforcement and Countermeasure Pet Peeves

10. LIDAR
In the hands of a skilled operator LIDAR is deadly. But why is it only #10 on my list? Because I rarely encounter it, and if I did, I'd get a laser jammer.

9. Cobras
They give the countermeasure users a bad rap. They are among the poorest performing RDs on the market, but the top selling brand. But worst of all is their annoying tendency to leak at frequencies that set off other RDs.

8. "Speed Kills"
Every time I see this phrase, especially when it's used to justify additional speed enforcement, it makes my blood boil. Proponents tend to filter the facts to fit their agenda. Exceeding an arbitrary and underposted speed limit is not dangerous at all. Driving like an idiot or driving drunk, those are far more dangerous than "speeding".

7. Laws making countermeasures illegal
Well, any laws that are purely anti-consumer or anti-motorist are peeves of mine (don't get me started on the DMCA). Most relevant to the discussion are laws that make detectors or laser jammers illegal in certain locations or for certain classes of drivers. The fact is, smart RD users tend to be more alert than those without them, so making them illegal is counterproductive from a safety standpoint. They're only illegal because they impact speeding ticket revenue, and such laws are justified due to our countermeasures being used as "tools to break the law."

6. Radar-based door openers
Once upon a time, automatic doors were triggered by pressure pads that emitted no signal whatsoever. Then, someone got the bright idea that a wireless solution would be cheaper to install, so someone invented radar based door openers. While these originally polluted the X band, nowadays they primarily occupy K band, which in the good old days was a reasonably false free band, and still popular with LEOs. Why they don't use cheap, reliable passive infrared sensors is beyond me.

5. Infiniti LCC (and other radar or laser based adaptive cruise controls)
Another "bright idea" that wasn't really thought through very well. These are primarily annoyances for V1 users, but they can trigger laser jammers as well. But worse is that some may come to rely on the adaptive cruise to handle the task of driving (well, braking) for them. And these things will only appear in more and cheaper cars over time.

4. Points and Insurance Surcharges
If the fact that speeding tickets are used as a revenue source for local/state governments isn't bad enough, insurance surcharges are the ultimate scam. The argument is that drivers with tickets are at a higher risk for accident claims, but that doesn't necessarily hold true for those with only speeding tickets. Get nailed in a speed trap at 65 in a 55 or something equally ridiculous, and you're branded as a "risky" driver and your rates go up. Even worse, some insurance companies use the extra money to donate radar/laser guns to police departments, so they can do what? Give out more tickets, resulting in even more insurance surcharges. These are the kinds of things that should be illegal, not RDs and jammers.

3. Tickets given for "70 in a 55"
More proof of speeding enforcement being used as a revenue scheme. Many stretches of highway are engineered for safe travel at over 70 mph, but are underposted at 55. Then, since everyone "speeds" through these stretches, they are constantly patrolled and they become ticket factories. Route 3 in southern NH/northern MA is a classic example of this. How many unfair tickets have been issued on highways such as this, when the victim was traveling at a perfectly safe and reasonable speed for conditions? Look in our "beat a ticket" forum for many examples.

2. Hidden and/or Unmarked vehicles used for speed enforcement.
Once again, proof of enforcement for revenue. If speed enforcement was done for safety reasons, a LEO would park out in the open, and if using radar, would run it constant. This provides a visible presence which encourages drivers to watch their speed and in general, be more alert while driving. Hiding or using unmarked vehicles doesn't encourage better driving, it just causes more tickets, and more revenue.

and Numero Uno is...

1. INSTANT ON!!!!!!!!
I *HATE* instant on. HATE HATE HATE HATE it. If anything should be outlawed as a speed trap scam, this is it. This is the one and only thing we don't have a truly reliable defense against. Rabbits help but not always. Everytime I read of "increased enforcement" in an area and then hear that they're using I/O, laser, or other sneaky tactics, the big dollar sign appears above my head. My worst close calls have been I/O attacks.

Ok, so what are yours?

My comments on yours:
10: Agree
9. No comment
8. Speed doesn't kill, but sudden impact might
7. Agree. This is America
6. Agree
5. Agree
4. Agree - totally financial motivation
3. Disagree. 15 over the PSL is too much in my opinion. I someone wants the PSL changed they should petition the jurisdiction to change it.
2. Agree. LEO vehicles should be CLEARLY marked
1. Agree

I think my biggest peeve is a person's insistence that their favorite countermeasure is the only acceptable countermeasure. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Probably my second peeve is that as far as I have determined, speed enforcement radar is inexact, is widely accepted as valid, and should not be permitted to be used for that purpose. LIDAR and VASCAR are different matters all together. Moverover, that a lone LEO's testimony of a speeding charge using radar, pacing, or even worse visual estimate of speed, is widely accepted as having met the burden of proof in court, while in reality is no PROOF at all.

Third is the use of photo enforcement where the driver of the vehicle is not identified, and yet the photo "evidence" is accepted by many as proof of guilt of a person. This is extremely unfair and in my opinion unconstitutional towards the person receiving the ticket. In many cases, the registered owner of the vehicle is ticketed and fined where there is no proof who was driving the vehicle.

Forth is the use of money from traffic fines or forefitted property, by any LE agency. Instead, that money and property should go towards education of youth and college tuition, and health care.

Just my opinion.

[9500ier]

Stealth Stalker:

Speed alone does not kill. You can go a billion miles an hour through space for eternity and never die if the conditions are right. The danger of speed is relative to many many things. The faster you go the better the conditions must be and the smaller the margin of error. Also, as much as most people don't want to admit it, skill is a huge factor. Look at the "ring"... people do die there, but the speeds are insane on that track and they are driving all types of different cars (plus most of the people that die are bike riders).

Also, Stealth, people will not just keep speeding forever if the limits are raised. The average on the autobahn is like 95mph or something. And its not more fatal than in the US, BTW. However, I don't think that system would work in the US because we have way too many ignorant/retarded drivers. Nonetheless, my point still stands... people (of the world) will not just continue speeding until they kill themselves if the limits get raised.

[9500ier]

15 over the PSL is too much in my opinion. I someone wants the PSL changed they should petition the jurisdiction to change it.

14 is okay though? I find it funny that people (who speed) say one speed is completely cool and then say that another amount is "too much".

[Stealth Stalker]

14 is okay though? I find it funny that people (who speed) say one speed is completely cool and then say that another amount is "too much".

Exactly how I feel about age of consent laws!

[9500ier]

14 is okay though? I find it funny that people (who speed) say one speed is completely cool and then say that another amount is "too much".

Exactly how I feel about age of consent laws!

touché!

[Stealth Stalker]

Speed alone does not kill.

I never said it did.

Also, Stealth, people will not just keep speeding forever if the limits are raised. The average on the autobahn is like 95mph or something.

That's what I said. I said you would be nearing 100 mph PSL before people accepted it as the max. Your figure pretty much proves that.

[9500ier]

Speed alone does not kill.

I never said it did.

Okay, I may have skimmed a little over the last 7 pages.

Also, Stealth, people will not just keep speeding forever if the limits are raised. The average on the autobahn is like 95mph or something.

That's what I said. I said you would be nearing 100 mph PSL before people accepted it as the max. Your figure pretty much proves that.

What is wrong with that speed? I think if the road is flat and dry and straight and everyone is paying attention and competent it is a perfectly reasonable speed.